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Podcast: Secure Your Financial Future And Pass on Your Legacy with Vinney Chopra

Episode: Syndication Made Easy with Spencer Hilligoss

Transcription below.

Vinney: [00:00:00] All right, guys. Hey. Vinney's back. Vinney's back with his book. Look at this here. Apartment Syndication Made Easy. Hey, top seller on Amazon. I would like for you to get if you haven't read it or given me five star reviews, you would love this book. We are giving it free. You know, you could go to Amazon get get it and all, but you could just go to that's all and you will get digital copy of the book and also audio copy of the book. And my second book which is also getting raving reviews. Positivity Brings Profitability which goes hand in hand with my first book. Again this we are giving away free to in the same place you know digital. I want to give it to 1 million people in my my goal is to go all across the world and my third book is coming which is a lot of people are retiring, as you know, they're turning into the silver tsunami. So my third book is coming on Senior Living Investing. Many of you probably know that I'm building them. Hampton Manor is our brand and we're just so and the hotels and all that. But I've got a great show for you today. Spencer Hilligoss is in the house and actually we are not too far away, maybe 40 minutes drive to each other. And then right here in Danville, Blackhawk in California. Both of us are. And welcome. Welcome, Spencer. How are you, brother?

Spencer: [00:01:26] Vinney, Thank you so much for having me. To your point, I mean, it's remarkable. I think we've been like very close to connecting 1 to 1 for many years through many people. And we're they're very close to each other geographically. So this is a this is a long time coming. And I'm honored. Thank you for having me.

Vinney: [00:01:41] I'm honored to have you. And, you know, I want to tell the people, everybody listening and of course, you're watching on YouTube, everything. Remember my two live shows also, which comes 9 a.m. Pacific Live shows in 14 different channels. And that is on Thursday, Abundance Mindset with Vinney Chopra and Walter Amarillo and then on Friday with my brother Beau, Vinnie and Beau Show. We do live at 9 a.m. Pacific. That's a little bit about that. But let's talk about Spencer. Spencer Hilligoss is the CEO and the Co-Founder of Madison Investing, a real estate investment firm specializing in real estate syndications. As a passive investor and active syndicator, he understands the unique challenges that busy professionals face. So we're going to dig into that. This is the show. If you want to diversify your portfolios and you want to invest into syndications or into joint ventures, this is what we're going to talk about in this show. And his mission is to, you know, arm the investors with know how they need to make confident decisions. And good part I just found out they are also broker dealer, you know so they are able to, you know, raise money and get paid also, which is very exciting. He has done so many great things in the Silicon Valley, you know, in the financial technology industry, in Intuit and Gusto, forging a 13 year track record over $1 billion. And then, you know, he's a member of the Forbes Real Estate Council 2021. Welcome, welcome, Spencer. It's going to be exciting show, I know for sure. And we're going to really talk about real deal, the super power, how to invest in great assets and you know make you know, great choices, I guess, you know, to build wealth. Yeah. Yes.

Spencer: [00:03:33] Thank you, Vinnie. Well, and also, this is the right time for it, right? I mean, 2023, I think a lot of people's heads are probably spinning a little bit. And for all the right reasons that you and I can relate to, it's a very it's a confusing time for folks, particularly if they're sitting there going, which way is up? You know, which way is up in the economy, which way is up in the job market. I think you and I tend to zoom back out and look at the long view, big picture. But it's just a joy to wake up every day now, as a guy who was in Silicon Valley, tech companies for 13 years start the day talking to folks such as yourself, you know, active investors and passive investors and figuring out the stuff that I wish I had learned earlier in my career. You know, I was I was working full time, making great W-2 income, growing a family here and all of those things that go into it. But I did grow up in a real estate household. I have to mention that my dad was a broker here in the Bay Area for 30 years, and that gave me that very, very narrow lens about what single family and residential brokerage is, only to later realize there's a big world out there. And working for your dad's business at that early age wasn't exactly my cup of tea. That's kind of what scared me into working in tech for 13 years, to be honest. Um, but all that to say, oh my goodness, big, bigger properties. There's so many wonderful reasons that I like it. And right now is not the time to, to, you know, retract. If I'm an investor, now is the time to lean in. And to sharpen sharpen one's pencil, as it were. Very excited to talk about

Vinney: [00:05:06] And so I love it. I love it. You hit the nail.

Brother, you hit the nail. You know, every piece of land in USA is owned by somebody, either government or some charities and others or individuals. Every piece of land. It could be apartment buildings, it could be mobile home parks. It could be strip shopping centers or hotels, industrial buildings or, you know, you name it. Right? I mean, standard stand alone stores that all these kind of things. So it's very exciting that, you know, we are able to look at and storage units. I forgot about those those are also big nowadays big time and senior living and assisted living and all that. But the key thing we're going to talk about today is like what should passive investors look for? Of course, the taxation is number one on their mind. Secondly, diversification so that they don't put all their eggs in one basket in one state or in one product and things like that kind of take me through, you know, as you deal with, you know, so many great investors, what are their maybe three most, you know, things that they want to really talk about, Right. Yeah.

Spencer: [00:06:14] Yeah. You know, well, there's those three pillars right out the gates. I'm so grateful that you actually teed it up by saying three. I mean, it's it's a framework I cannot take credit for. You know, this is something that someone much smarter than me in real estate years ago came up with. And you look at three different things. If you're not the person out there managing the deal in the middle of markets like Texas, markets like like Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, what have you, these wonderful cash flowing markets that I appreciate and you appreciate. There's three things. And you look at the who, you know, who's the who are the boots on the ground? Who are the people doing the work If you're not doing the work because you're passive? Totally. I mean, that is by far the most important thing. Yes. And number two, you do want to look at the market and these conversations, even just for the past 3 to 5 business days as that we've started the new year, people are coming back from drinking eggnog out here in California. We're getting rained on. Yeah.

Vinney: [00:07:08] Big time.

Spencer: [00:07:09] Big time. Big time.

Vinney: [00:07:10] And everything going on.

Spencer: [00:07:12] A little more water than we wanted. But we'll take it.

Vinney: [00:07:15] We'll take it, you.

Spencer: [00:07:15] Know, But like. So you got the. The who, the where and then the business plan. And if you're not the one doing the work as a guy who went through a very brief journey, I'll just say a lot of folks you'll read online, a lot of folks live this we wanted to buy real estate earlier in the last real estate cycle between 20. We got started around 2013 up until maybe about 2016, and we went and bought a local duplex. We still have that duplex. It's up in Vallejo, you know, Vallejo, it's about 45 minutes north of me, $430,000 purchase price for $200 a month in cash flow. Is that a win for cash flow? Maybe, maybe not. Yeah, maybe not. So how do you stretch that dollar further? We went to the Midwest and that was phase two. We bought a small portfolio of rentals. We got up to $60,000 purchase price each, remarkably low purchase price for you and I sitting here in the Bay Area for for a place, even with a loan on them $250 a month in cash flow. That sounds great in concept. And then ultimately what happens turn over management. Yeah, third party management. And that's not simple. There's still headaches. You still get the phone calls you don't want to get when you're working full time and making great income in a corporate job that's demanding all those things. That's what brought us full circle all the way to what is actually passive. And I was still working full time in the tech career until 2019, and I was like, You know what? I can keep doing this, but I can’t. We can't scale this. We can't build a truly passive lifestyle to achieve the kind of lifestyle we want for our kids. For me to be a passive hands on dad, all those wonderful things we value unless we find a better way to invest. So then we found syndications and private funds and that's and that's what started all this money. I mean, it wasn't some master plan to build a business around this that now is a passive investing club that I help investors with. It began that way. And ultimately, I won't just list off the endless reasons why I love these big assets compared to the small ones, but I just have to say there's a way to vet and there's frameworks. I love a good framework and I love a three part framework that you just we were just talking about. Look at the who, look at the where and look at the business plan. How's the are the people doing this? Yeah. Have they done it before? I mean, you and I were chatting about this and it's fun for me because I love talking about the nuances of these businesses. But you mean you're highly experienced operator Vinney So like, you know how this works. You've done this dozens and dozens of times before successfully, so folks can can trust you with your competency and your track record. But there's thousands of deals that are marketed to passive investors every year.

Vinney: [00:10:04] Hi, Thank you so much. This is Vinnie Chopra and thank you for subscribing to my podcast and YouTube channel and Facebook pages and all the great things and LinkedIn Connect with me. I come live to you every Friday at 9:00 Pacific with Vinney and Bow Show. Please also look at that and also the podcast, which is my Apartment Syndication Made Easy. The book I wrote to a couple of years back became international top seller on Amazon International Now and then we like to bring great guests for you every week or twice a week sometime to give you a lot of great knowledge. So please subscribe. You give us five star reviews on the iTunes. The better the guests we can, you know, bring and our ranking will go higher. Also, thanks again for following us and really getting the most out of it. Please comment like share because we would love to bring better and better material for you.

Vinney: [00:11:10] And so glad. Yeah, no, you're hundred percent right. When you said who a lot of things came in my mind. The principles on the top, you know, who are the general partners? How many are there? That's very crucial because if they are not able to get along and have some problems and things, you know, I say too many cooks in the kitchen burn the recipe. Right? So we need to really make sure who are the people? Like when we were in the peak, we had 153 people on our payroll because we managed all our assets. Yes, every state. We had regional managers, asset managers, community managers, technical people, everything, infrastructure, Every two weeks we had a payroll of millions and not millions. But, you know, overall millions of dollars we spent. But now since I've sold and closed the cycles, we are working with Bell partner, which are billions of dollars. They are managing Greystones, they are my partner, they manage my $63 Million deal. And then over there in Tennessee, I've got ramp partners. So we are able to work with these three party companies who are specialists in doing the right job at the right time and we manage, you know, but who is so important? I love that what you said, you know, then where, oh, my gosh, you know, diversification. That's huge. Huge. And business plan. You hit the nail on the head because, you know, syndicators like me and you and others, see, you could manipulate numbers, but manipulate number is the worst thing, because if you make it more attractive by changing the cap rate on maybe exit, you could make the IRR go so high. Yes. Goes so high. You know that right now numbers can make such a big difference. So really be able to look at the business plan what the people are looking the you know general partners I guess or the operators how they are looking at if they can have very optimistic, you know, things they are talking about or would they be able to do and do that business plan. So love your attitude about conservative being conservative.

Spencer: [00:13:30] Oh, you have to. And you and I both know you said so many things that are fun to talk about, but I'll just zero in on the conservative comment because the conservative underwriting is on every marketing piece of material, on every deal that's ever been marketed to the private market of investors. But in 2023, that's been redefined. And so every year I think a key learning, if I could go back in time and grab myself in a few years ago as a as a aspiring LP, limited partner, passive investor and say, hey, self, understand this concept. Every single deal is a snapshot in time. Yes. And look at the numbers because the number now that I got me excited when I was looking at a deal last week was how much rent growth can can this deal expect in the next 12 months? Yeah. If this was 2018, I would be probably very comfortable seeing 3%. If this is now the deal that we're excited about, 0%. So, you know, and I'm being very specific just with one random of countless examples, but like these are the things that folks can actually start to look at. But back to the key point, Vinnie, I think it's very tempting, particularly for investors in 2023, who are licking their wounds on their equities portfolios, myself included. Yeah. You know, everyone, if they have any shares.

Vinney: [00:14:53] Have lost so much in the stock market. Brother. What? 2021. We lost in 2022. You know, it's like even. Right? Yeah.

Spencer: [00:15:03] Well, and whether it's like mutual funds or index funds or retirement portfolios, 401 K is what have you. I'm looking at that, licking wounds and hearing from these investors, as you probably are saying, Oh, now I should probably finally get into doing this form of investing of syndication investing. And unfortunately, you know, I'm glad that I'm glad they're starting now. Yeah, unfortunately, they're coming into a time where they're going to have to recalibrate some of their expectations. Right. And and take the time. Yeah. Educate and partner with folks such as Vinney and like understand like this is a journey, but the best thing someone can do is simply just get started because there's really no way to learn, you know, theoretical. You have to just do it. And even if it's as soon as you got the money in, you pay more attention, I'll tell you that much. So for sure.

Vinney: [00:15:51] That's for sure. And you know, you're so right, because what also we talked before the show is that market is changing. And I just heard some statistic, 300,000 people are under water already. That's like close to, you know, one third of a million. Yeah, right. Million. It could be even higher now. But the thing is, because of the rate increases and also people buying over a frenzy in the last three, four years over bidding, over bidding over bidding, doing a bridge loan, which the amounts have gone up. Just to kind of share that with you myself, I bought a deal in 2020. Yeah, 20, right. No, no. 21. 21. And it was 35,000 a month mortgage on that apartment complex. It's 72,000 now. Yes, per month. Per month.

Spencer: [00:16:46] So that's the power of those. Historically high rate Increases.

Vinney: [00:16:49] Historically high rates. And I just got I signed with Freddie yesterday to bring down the interest rate from 7.68% to 5.22%. Wow. There are loans out there if you know the right brokers and if you have the right profile and everything and everything because I've taken a lot of Freddie loans, I'm just kind of sharing with the audience. I mean, there are ways to cut down these Skyhawk, you know, rates, but you got to act on it. I've been working on it for three months and I just got the term sheet and I signed it yesterday.

Spencer: [00:17:25] Well congratulations. I mean, that’s the kind of thing you do say congratulations on.

Vinney: [00:17:30] I mean, thank you. You know, if I may say no, you're so kind, because now I'm not able to pay a penny from my side because we have done our business plan. We just talked about business plan. My property with my help of my daughter and a ramp partners is able to bring that much cash flow per month that they can pay mortgage of 35k in January of last year year and now 72,000 this year. So one month they have increased the cash flow so high. That's what I'm really proud of, you know, because, yes, sometimes you can under-deliver or over overstate and everything, but then you come to the investors and say, hey, we need a cash call because mortgage went up twice as much, something like that. But now we are able to take the cash flow and still survive and not, do you know, cash flow for a little bit. But we are doing it because it's in a fund. My property, that's no problem. But anyway, I'm just I'm talking too much. But what you.

Spencer: [00:18:36] Just appreciate the detail. I think people will too.

Vinney: [00:18:39] Yeah. It's so important, you know, that we work with the right operators. I think that's the key thing, you know, because I mean, in these foreclosure times, some will be happening, you know, this year and next year and you could lose the money. So you have to be very careful. I'm just thought, you know, it'll be a good point to drive home with the passive investors, you know, because they are looking for protection of money and then making their money grow, right?

Spencer: [00:19:08] Absolutely. Well, is it okay? Can I share one concept.

Vinney: [00:19:11] Please? Oh, yeah.

Spencer: [00:19:13] I mean, I think what you just covered in the transparency with which you covered it is a rarity in a such a positive way Vinney. And because as such, as we go into these market waters, the worst thing that someone can do when reaching out to a passive investor is try to obfuscate or hide the stuff that is not pretty. You know, experienced LPs, you know, people that have invested in many deals passively, myself, yourself, others, you ask them, a thousand, sample a thousand of them and what will they tell you the most important thing that matters to them? Communication, yes, but especially quick communication if things are not going well for whatever reason. And that's number one. It's not even maximizing return. It's I want to know where things stand. And so kudos to you. I think that that is amazing. And also as an LP going in to 2023, I just had like three conversations with brand new members of our group this week about this. Uh, you've probably dealt with this so many more times than I have because of your experience is they'll ask, so what are the merits of this deal or this type of deal or this asset class, senior living, multifamily, self-storage, what have you. And I have to ask them back like, Hey, we'll get there. Let me ask you this first investor What matters to you more? What is your goal? Is your goal? Diversification is one thing, but for most people they really firmly only want either growth. Or they want cash flow.

Vinney: [00:20:47] Yeah. Yeah.

Spencer: [00:20:48] And that now is the time for each investor to really sit down and ask them before they invest capital into a deal. Are they looking for monthly checks, quarterly distributions? Because if they are, that is a very specific thing that they need to zero in on and think about for a deal. Because I got to say, most of the investors that we work with at this point, they are so financially sound. They don't need the monthly check. They don't want the monthly check. What they want is a risk adjusted great outcome in 3 to 5 years and some tax benefits period. And but that is absolutely not intended to ignore the passive income crowd. We we started our whole investing career as LPs, zeroing in on cash flow until we hit our monthly number that we want to rely on. Yeah. So I just wanted to hit that for folks because I really think that's important because if they're at that altitude where they're like, Well, I just want to get money out of stocks because stocks are scary and it's dropped 60, 50, 60%. Let me park that over here in real estate. Not deep enough, guys. Yeah. You know, and I'm not trying to give them homework. I'm not trying to critique. I'm just simply saying I wouldn't expect any syndicator to work a miracle for you. I would expect you to hold yourself to accountable goals of saying I want growth on a risk adjusted basis or I want monthly passive income or quarterly passive income because those are two totally different investments and you can get both in syndications and private funds if you know what your goals are.

Vinney: [00:22:17] So no, so true. What you it is so right. There are so many people who are really relying on that monthly. I know in my company we've been paying for 15 years quarterly returns, cash flows, right? Hopefully not monthly, but certain syndicators they give monthly because the clientele or the investors need that, you know, basis. In our case, it's like that probably yours is also quarterly because they don't need those cash flows to make ends meet, but they would rather take the tax advantages and take that lump sum. You know, the negative k-1s can keep on accumulating over 3 to 5 years and now there is a big payoff. Long term capital gain offset good pat it against right you know and then you know not pay maybe pay zero tax we don't know right yeah.

Spencer: [00:23:11] Very big fan of that that characteristic of the deal right and I think that we're hitting on the topic that now more than ever for the passive investor like this is the real question in the market. You know, like the concept I've tried to pass along because we use it in our own family and our goal setting and our business. Now, Vinnie, is this concept of financial offense and financial defense. And I don't know if other folks have used that in public use. I'll just say that that's how we've talked about it ever since. We were still working full time jobs. And now Jennifer and I do this full time and we have for years. What does that really mean to us on financial offense? What that means is if you're sitting there, if we are sitting there looking at a deal, evaluating a new sponsor and we're thinking, are we prepared to go wire $50,000, $100,000, $200,000 into a given deal? Do we really know why? And not only why the why beneath the why, beneath the why, at least peel it back a couple of ways down to a number. And my favorite one I'll just say for folks is. Do they want to have a set number of passive income monthly or quarterly? If they do so.

Vinney: [00:24:18] True.

Spencer: [00:24:18] Write it down. Right. Write the number. Down.

Vinney: [00:24:22] Oh, I'm. So what you're saying is. So write It all boils down to starting from what the needs are, right? You know, And then you'll be able to find them. This strategy where to invest and, you know, like that. I was thinking, what's your superpower? If I were to ask you, you know, I mean, you give it's a serving attitude, which is amazing. I love it. I love it. Your biggest thing also investors mind is wealth preservation and planning, you know, for their whole thing about, you know, their cash flow situation and everything. But preservation comes first, I think, you know.

Spencer: [00:25:02] Absolutely. Yeah. So super power. I always struggle with this, even though I think I can say what this is because I don't know, something feels weird about saying it out loud, but I guess it would have to be not only as simple as it sounds, but listening. And I don't I don't mean just like, listening because everyone thinks they listen. Well, none of us listen as well as we think in the moment. Truly hearing what the person is asking and stating about who they are, what are they trying to achieve, and then following up and then really understanding, digging down. And even if they aren't even sure how to say it themselves, like helping them get there in service of them achieving what they need to achieve. Because in this case, we're talking about investments. I would say beyond that, though, Vinney, it would also just have to be trying to see the big picture and come up with the best possible way to serve others. And as generic as that might sound, looking across the vast landscape of the economy, our niche that we both appreciate and play in, that happens to be big properties, hotels, apartments, self storage. Looking across that whole landscape and just figuring out what's the right next step forward for, you know, one step in front of the other, both for our own personal wealth, also for our investors wealth before we go out and we actually, you know, put our stamp on something, if we say we believe in a deal and we're going to share that to the Madison Investing passive Investing group, like, are we really confident in this because of the clear steps that we've taken, the money we've put in our own personal capital and saying, we believe in this and here's why. And so synthesizing all that data that's out there, because it all comes back to listening and paying attention. So I don't know if that makes sense for a superpower. Oh, it does. It does. I think a lot of people are constantly doing and doing, but they're not stopping to listen and they're not stopping to reflect whether that's reading reports or simply just listening to what other smart, more experienced people have to say.

Vinney: [00:26:54] Oh, my gosh. You know, you hit the nail this morning. Abundance mindset with Vinney Chopra. It was Stephen Covey's - Seek to Understand Others Point Of View Before We Speak. That was the main topic a lot of us here and listening is two different things, right? But really being intent in listening what they're trying to say, where they're coming from rather than just blowing over. But digging deeper into that's so important what you just said. And you know, that's so important in anybody who wants to even, you know, work with investors or any in your own company or anything like that. It's so so I mean, it's just I just feel like going back to basics because it's 2023 now in January, 12th of January, I really believe that, you know, all of us can be better listeners. I'm so glad you brought it up again.

Spencer: [00:27:50] Yeah. And it doesn't just mean social media, you know, it means having a human face to face, whether that's over Zoom. Or a coffee one on one.

Vinney: [00:28:01] And, you know, it's listening to people, your team members, your partners, your, you know, investors, your everybody, everybody up and down the pike like that. You know, can I kind of get you to is that bobblehead figure there?

Spencer: [00:28:15] Oh, this guy. Yeah. No, I.

Vinney: [00:28:19] Was going to show you. I don't know where my bobblehead is. We'll have some fun here.

Spencer: [00:28:25] That is outstanding. Oh, my goodness. I can't believe it has survived this long. My five year Old.

Vinney: [00:28:31] Look at this here, brother. This is going to be epic. You know, usually I don't see that there. This is, somebody made me over here with a mustache. And there you are, brother.

Spencer: [00:28:41] Look you kind of stare at it and you go, Is that me? You know, that's so funny. That's awesome.

Vinney: [00:28:47] Funny. I know. I thought that chuckle up, you know? Can you share like, any books you're reading or something really impacting your life right now or any podcasts you're listening, You know, anything you want to share with the audience?

Spencer: [00:29:00] Yeah, yeah. A couple right out the gates, I'll say most recommended business book and not just real estate Business book is Essentialism by Greg. Mcewen, and I've recommended it more than any other book and will continue to. I think I've gone through it personally three times, you know.

Vinney: [00:29:19] oh WOW. Essentialism?

Spencer: [00:29:20] You know why? Why am I such a fan of it? It's because it teaches you that everybody has the same 24 hours in a day, whether it's whether it's, you know, the pope or Oprah or a president or anyone. All of us, all humans, same 24 hours. So what's the difference? You know, how do some people get to where they go, others stall out or they don't get started? And it's because of the power of saying no with intent.

Vinney: [00:29:47] Oh, my God. You know.

Spencer: [00:29:49] And for me, I think back to the moments, as many people do when they're asked by a colleague at work, hey, you want to get a coffee or you go to the bar and have happy hour or you go and say to a friend, do you want to go see a concert? And, you know, if you sit and we're honest with yourself, is this in line? Even though that would be fun, even though that would fulfill my social need, even though that would be, you know, connecting with the person I care about. Yeah, anyone can achieve big things. They simply just need to have the choice and the clarity on the outcome they're going for. Yeah. And then in the moment realize the social awkwardness is really the only thing holding them back. It doesn't feel good to say no to friends. It doesn't feel good to say no to co-workers. So that book, I won't preach anymore. I'll just say…

Vinney: [00:30:36] That book is very good topic. You know what you're saying is everybody's got same amount of time, but how we utilize time and not to be, you know, obstinate or something or make people feel uncomfortable. But the thing is, power of learning to say no is such a great power.

Spencer: [00:30:53] While still leaving that other person's esteem intact. You know? And and with that book was it was a light bulb for me and it was like, oh, so I have permission to do this and I don't have to be a jerk. Oh, it stops most people, right? And so beyond that, I'm compelled to at least mention we worked very hard at Madison Investing to create a free resource that we launched recently. It's on our website. It's a Blueprint for passive investors, and I think that has been a labor of love. And so folks can also find that too. On our website, we just launched that seven seven part course and they can get what they need to learn how to do that too.

Vinney: [00:31:29] I love it. I love it. I was going to ask you, how can people reach you? You're right. In Alameda,, I think, right? Correct. You know, we'll put the show notes also. And no, thank you so much for hanging out with me, Spencer, that brother and everybody. You know, if you really got some good nuggets out of this one, please share it with one more person or 2 or 3, which can really make a big impact and also give five star reviews if you're getting good content that we are putting out. And again, two shows that I do on Thursday, Friday live shows and then podcast. I think every day my team is putting out some kind of very nice things. So thank you so much and we'll see you in the next show. Thank you right there.

Thank you again, you know, for joining Vinnie Chopra this week on this podcast. And please subscribe, share, give comments and give five star rating if you can on iTunes, because that really helps a lot for us to bring great guests. And also it raises our rankings up. And I hope you have been very happy with Vinnie Chopra and team who are able to bring great information. If you'd like to invest with us, please go ahead and go to Vinnie Chopra. Dot com slash invest. Thanks again. God bless you.

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