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Podcast: The Real Estate Investing Foundation Podcast

Episode: Building Teams and Goal Alignment

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Intro: [00:00:01] This is the Real Estate Foundation. You're so from massive action with proven results. Raise your life and your legacy with real estate.

Jason: [00:00:19] Are you ready to take your multifamily game to the next level? Well, you need to join us. October 12th, Saturday, October 12th for our one day Multifamily Foundation workshop. We're going to bring it to you live. We've got a list of 15 speakers that are going to go through the process of everything it takes to get your mind right, get the deal right, learn the terms, understand the markets, learn how to find the deals, learn how to underwrite the deals, learn how to put your team together, everything from property managers to brokers to insurance companies. Beyond that, what's the proper way to raise funds for a deal and how to close a deal and what to do after you take over a deal. So it's going to be a huge event. It's going to be awesome for you to join us. We've got a great space. It's going to be here in New Jersey, in Springfield, New Jersey. Of course, it's going to be a one day event. But we got everything packed in from 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. Right now, if you put in the code workshop, you're going to get a special discount. And again, that code is workshop, but you need to go to multifamily foundation Again, and go fast because we've sold a ton of tickets for this. I actually was able to get a bigger room, so but that's filling up quickly as well. So again, multifamily foundation put in the code workshop. There we go. Got that down and look forward to seeing you so we can all take massive action together. Thanks for coming back on the show with us today. We are super excited because we have Spencer Hilligoss with us. Hey, Spencer, how are you doing?

Spencer: [00:01:50] Hey, Jason. Good morning. Doing great. Thank you so much for having me. I'm a big fan of your work.

Jason: [00:01:54] Like to have you on here. And so here's a little bit more about Spencer. Spencer is the co-founder and principal of Madison Investing LLC. He's an active real estate investor with holdings in multiple states. He's a licensed mortgage loan originator and led the origination teams for the largest fix and flip real estate lender in the country responsible for more than 3 billion in transactions. So, wow, that's that's a lot right there. Just to said. But give us a little bit more Give us a little bit more about Spencer, who you are, what you've been doing. And and it says Madison. So for some reason I was thinking when we first chatting in Wisconsin, you're actually in the West Coast as well.

Spencer: [00:02:29] Yeah, we are. We are wildly unoriginal with naming. We actually live on Madison Street. So that that was the only real, you know, truth behind that name. But I'm super stoked to be here. Jason, Thanks so much for having me. So my story is actually pretty simple. I've actually been at Technology and software Company executive for about 13 years. I live out in the Bay Area, Silicon Valley. A lot of people know that narrative at a high level mean what they don't know necessarily is that a lot of people out here are chasing this dream of winning it big with a startup that finally goes public. And I think a lot of folks sign up and go down that narrative for decades. And so I was going down that path and thought, eventually I'll work at the startup. It's going to make it it's going to be the next Facebook, Google, Uber, whatever. And ultimately, I stumble into working for this amazing fix and flip lender that's also a technology company and that is LendingHome. I'm still working there as an executive there to this day, and so I'm enamored with, you know, this is a typical narrative you hear, but I'm enamored with with real estate investing. In all fairness, I was brought into a real estate family 30 years ago. My dad was a broker selling residential out here in the in the Bay Area. So I was forced to do open houses for like for like basically $60 million homes when I was in high school. And I absolutely hated it. And, you know, there's cool stories that emerge from that. I got to meet like, you know, Joe Montana, give him a house tour with my dad and at the time didn't think it was that cool. In hindsight, I'm like, Damn, that's actually pretty cool.

Jason: [00:04:02] Yeah. Joe Montana. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Spencer: [00:04:04] That's pretty awesome. Um, but now here we are, I am still working at LendingHome, but I also am building this business. Madison Investing, multifamily focused self-storage, mobile home parks. We partner with multiple different people across the US and now, you know, we own equity and basically over 3000 units have more heavily on the GP side and it's just growing like gangbusters because the folks out in the Bay Area in particular I would say are starting to realize the benefits of all this real estate stuff. And it's not just a bunch of hogwash. It's truly like a proven great not only investment, it's something that's going to continue to be that. And so it's a little more reliable than than betting on a startup.

Jason: [00:04:48] Do remember one of those pinnacle points in your trajectory where you were you were just thinking like, man, like, you know, this startup thing? I enjoy it, but I just need to have a secondary path or another path that can really assist our future.

Spencer: [00:05:02] Yeah, I think the first inkling of that was when I was working for my last company. I was putting in longer days than you can possibly imagine. I mean, as an entrepreneur, you probably can imagine them and live them. To be fair, I think a lot of entrepreneurs are the gold standard for hustle. That said, I was putting in 16 hour days when my first child, this is back a few years ago, they were just just an infant and I was grinding hard for this startup. And this startup is still to this day, hot, as they say. It's looking like it's going to have a big exit, but none of that money is real. None of that capital is real until it actually goes public. So I'm going home and my wife is sitting there who also works full time and she's looking at me going like, Can we do this? Like, how can we continue to do this? And people do like people. People hit this, this working life balance or lack of balance. Yeah, decades. This is the entirety of their careers and that's when it first like planted the seed for me like, okay, even if that happens what I wouldn't know what to do like, like you go ask a person who actually went through an exit at a startup company that goes public or they get acquired and they have a seven figure one time cash moment and you say, What are you going to do now? And they say, Well, gee, I thought I might go buy a car.

Spencer: [00:06:19] Okay. Um, I don't think they've really thought that far ahead. They just think I'm done. But what they don't know is that one time cash influx is going to start losing value the moment it hits their savings account. There's nowhere else they can put it. And putting it in that car. Sure, they deserve that. It's probably not necessarily going to be the smartest use for creating an income for themselves after that. So that is where I just followed the path in the logic and and that's where I ended up and then studied, read 24 books on multifamily, listened to podcasts like yours, you know, 400 plus podcasts network like crazy over the last few years, and then eventually started getting into deals with more competent people who are more experienced that were willing to let me copilot and eventually start doing our own deals. So it's a crazy path.

Jason: [00:07:02] Isn't it true that right, you're so many people's identity gets tied into just what they do and they haven't thought past it, Right. So you're talking about this this pinnacle moment where you get this big check and their only thought process, Oh, just go get a car and probably just go back and work hard again because they haven't thought about like what is life and really the outlook of life really look like. If you could set up your day and a lot of this is for you, you were working these long hours, you and your wife both doing this and just looking at, you know, like, how can you do this for decades further where you just have no day, your day is just spent inside or wherever doing the grind and you get home and it's just almost an automatic on repeat. So, you know, you look at the real estate space and you start listening to all the podcasts and you even work for a flipping house, which sounds funny when you say, Well, I'm doing all this, but I'm going to choose multifamily. What was it about multifamily that that was the driver that you said, Okay, I'm with LendingHome. We've done what, 3 billion in transactions, but I'm going to go the multifamily route. Where was it that drew that line?

Spencer: [00:08:02] That is such a great question, man. I was sitting there surrounded with about 6 to 7 different colleagues that run their own flip shops on the side, and some of them have gone on to build amazing businesses in places like Texas and other states, and they're growing flip shops that are excellent and they're crushing it. And I'm sitting there going, Why? Like, I enjoy. I know, I know this might be blasphemous in the real estate investing community to say this. I don't hate my day job. I find that it's a little distracting from building my core business, of course, but I don't hate my day job. So where do I land if I hear people saying, Go start flipping because flipping is great. It's it's an admirable career. It's a hard job if you don't know what you're doing and you've never swung a hammer before like me, which is a big reason why I didn't go for flip or flipping. But I would say I certainly know how to analyze. I can do a spreadsheet. I'm not the best, but I'm pretty good at it. I know how to build relationships. I've been building teams and hiring hundreds of people for for like 13 years across five companies. And so I know that really well. I know how to build partnerships. So I think what is this other asset class I keep hearing about? And I'm going to pull out the example that you'll hear from from Robert Kiyosaki. Of course, I'm sure you've heard this plenty of times, which is, do you want to go pick up bucket after bucket having to go and walk back and forth with a figurative bucket.

Spencer: [00:09:23] Every time a flip happens, you get that one time cash event, dump it on the table and say, all right, that's done. Or can you go build a figurative pipeline and is that pipeline going to start flowing income to you on a regular basis? And I'm such a maybe it was an influx of too many video games growing up. Jason, maybe it was the fact that like, I'm just more of an operations minded guy. I really think that building systems has always made more sense to me. And looking at multifamily, you could build a partnerships. It's a team sport like we all talk about. You can go and actually create sustainable passive income and active income from that, which we're doing now. And also. Unlike flipping, I can partner with people who can actually play to their strengths and complement mine. So again, thank God for YouTube every day because I try to fix stuff around my house and I'm not exactly great at it yet, but I'm getting there. But for multifamily, I work with people who are just better at construction management than I am, and I love that because they teach me things every day, so I'm able to lean on them when it comes to being able to like walk through the units and decide what's going to go on, what place, and then hear their great plans that they've built out in detail. And I'm like, Wow, okay, great. I'm glad you're here. I wouldn't know what to do on that front, but they look at me when they say, Hey, help us with the analysis, help us with the partnerships, all the other stuff.

Jason: [00:10:42] So that's awesome. And you're spot on, though, right? Is so many people are just so eager to get out of their job. But they they don't look at what they can actually grow from their job. Right. You know, the W-2 that can be you know, the prove is your balance. You have two years out there, self-employment, where you're going to have to prove yourself if you're going to try and go there and get some kind of debt. You also have the lending side, which actually proves, you know, you're looking at. And even if it's not from your company's perspective, you're seeing how other investors are being successful running their businesses. So it's a nice behind the scenes where you can see the people that are doing it right and of course, the people that are doing it wrong, which sometimes can even be just almost just as much beneficial for you. So when you're looking at this, what are some things that stand out and will give just a little bit towards your your days at LendingHome to to active investors that are really being successful compared to others that are really just still trying to figure it out.

Spencer: [00:11:35] Yeah, I think probably the first principle right off the bat is when I and this goes for both multifamily as well as the Flipper community, they take the seriousness of marketing and they apply a lot. They apply their time to it and they apply their budget to it. I think they think that going out and having to come up with a brand, having to come up with a narrative for your company, figuring out a compelling way to tell your own story, that those are things that are like an afterthought. And for the for the folks who want to do, you know, go watch HGTV and they think it's fun and they're enamored with the idea of just doing the first flip good on them. Like, I'm seriously think that they're on like a fun and exciting path and it's going to be challenging, but they probably haven't made that decision yet. Is this a business for me? Is this like a future career or is this a meaningful side hustle? Like, what is this thing? And you can tell the difference usually between like the professional operators in the flip space, like, let's say I'm going all in. I'm going to build a brand around this. I'm even going to hire like, like partner with someone who may be better than that.

Spencer: [00:12:37] Just like the same topic around construction. If someone doesn't understand how to do that, being honest with themselves and you know, you can pull up a website and figure out real quick if someone decided to take five minutes, put together that Weebly site, that Wix site, and those are fine providers. We have a Wix site. Um, but they, they don't really take it seriously and as a result they don't get the inbound for new interests. They don't, they don't have the credibility boost that they need. When other people say that was a great meeting with, with that guy or gal, let me go to their website and just make sure they're legit. I'm not sure they're legit. They go out and they pull it up and it's like a website from the 90 seconds and and you're like, Oh, I don't think that that's a real operator. Let me go to that other person. I talked to you last week, so it's got to be marketing right off the bat from my perspective. The second would just be systems. Yeah. As you know, scaling and systems and it's so hardcore and printed in my mind, thankfully, from the much smarter people than me within the tech community. Um, that if and when you're doing a task and it seems like you're going to be doing that task. Five times a week, maybe ten times a day. It could be anything. It could be sending a certain type of email. Well, do you have a template for that? It could be something as simple as do you run the same complex calculation 20 times in a month and it takes you an hour every time you have to do it. And in the moment you're doing it on that 20th time, do you have the presence of mind? To stop and decide I'm going to go build something like a calculator to exponentially improve the way that I operate so that, you know, it's those presence of mind moments, but also just saying like, Dude, I don't know how to like if you don't know how to go do that, that stuff just partner with people or go seek out help and just humble yourself in front of people. Man, I love asking stupid questions. And so I think I absolutely know the more you learn, the more you realize what you don't know in this world I have found, which is quite different than my original perspective in my early 20s, where you think you know it all and you think you got it all figured out and you think that people are more experienced than you are stupid.

Spencer: [00:14:40] And it couldn't be further from the truth. Just go ask for help on things like marketing. Hire someone. You can hire small business consultants for scaling systems. I'm talking to this great person this week who I met at a conference just two weekends ago in Texas. He is a career by trade underwriter and want to talk to him because maybe there's a great partnership there. I need to start thinking about how I scale my time and underwriting some of these deals that I underwrite every day. So these are just great examples about the systems. That was a long winded answer to your question, but the what is the difference between the people that are pro and they end up making a big splash and you see the profits and you see them climbing. It's those things. It's can they build the inbound funnel marketing wise? Can they build the systems to actually make time give back for themselves as also as well as just do it better and consistently because we make mistakes. Humans are very fallible and we consistently make mistakes. So the better we can protect ourselves from inconsistency, the stronger we're going to be.

Jason: [00:15:38] Yeah, and see, those are awesome points. And you're making me laugh because yesterday we're doing a multifamily workshop in October, my wife's searching for a videographer for it and she's like, I just can't call someone who doesn't have a their website basically for a mobile platform. Like if they if they're someone who's, you know, like in person that builds a reputation on the pictures and videos they shoot and they can't even take the time to even, you know, put together a proper website. What is that going to say about the product they're going to give you on any on any content? Totally. You know, And so you look at that and you say, well, yeah, it's spot on. And it was just a great note right there, you know, And then talking to your points here in terms of multifamily, you know, you've grown so quickly in the space, you've grown so quickly in what you're doing. How have you aligned with with the other partners? What are some of the strengths you look for in a potential operator or partner, whether it's in multifamily, self storage? What are some things that stand out to you that that have to be on the table for you to entertain going into a deal?

Spencer: [00:16:37] Yeah. Um, great question. So I think just to continue showing my nerdiness. Through conversations and through coaching programs because I've been a part of four different coaching programs. I'm gonna use two right now that stay in and I intend to stay in. Um, I learned about 50 different questions that I've curated and whittled down that I need to personally have an answer to when I go and connect with a new a new partner. And that's going to involve similar questions I'm hoping they're going to ask me because if they don't ask me, then I'm going to I'm going to probably take that as a red flag. I want to know, okay, have they done this type of work before? Have they done this type of work before in this market? Have they done this type of work before on this asset type in this market, running this same type of playbook? And then have they done it, you know, a couple times and it's okay. You know, life is all about developing judgment over time. And I think that it's okay to occasionally go outside those lines. It's not so binary like, Oh, they didn't beat my checklist. I certainly can't work with them, but it starts there with the consistency of knowing what's your criteria, not just on the deal, because everyone goes straight to the deal. It's about the person across the table. And so ask them those types of questions.

Spencer: [00:17:55] I also want to know some some of the really rudimentary stuff which people kind of fly by, which is reference checks. You know, like there's so many ways to do I'm not talking about creepy kind of employer style. Get on the phone. Well, where are you employed at this company for the last two years. And who was your direct supervisor? It's more about talk to a few people that are in their network. Get to know them too. And if it's the first true connection, they claim to know each other well. You talk to them and they struggled to remember who the person was. That's a big red flag. Like they basically gave you the name of someone to go say that that was a reference who can vouch for them and they're unwilling to even they can't recall the dude's name or the person's name. And so it's that type of stuff right off the bat where I kind of my ears perk up. So I want to make sure that they're competent. I want to make sure they're trustworthy. Integrity is deeply important to me. I'm the kind of person where I've always probably been a little too authentic. There's been moments where it probably hurt my career because I tend to just call things as I see them, and some people don't like that, and some people like to keep a little bit more of a mask.

Spencer: [00:18:57] And I've always had a problem with that. That's just kind of who I am. But I think that is something I would at least at a bare minimum, want to work with, is someone who can be transparent, someone who can bring up not only their misses, which is critical, they can talk about like how they intend to avoid those misses in the future. Right. And like, again, don't sit there and like grill someone. I just want to talk to them like like a like a peer. Like, think of us all as equals. Even if someone is a mentor who's gone far beyond me in their career. We're all human beings and we're all working hard in this space. So let's just come to this table and ask each other and get to know each other via these types of questions. And if it's a fit, we can get through that conversation. Hitting all those points without either person feeling like like they were misrepresented, like they were actually being grilled in an interview. It's just getting to know people and but I do think track record matters for sure. Track record, repeat strategy, ability to go and actually provide other people on their network that are able to vouch for them on some level. And those would be the big ones for me on the partnership front.

Jason: [00:20:01] Yeah, and they're great ones right there. Right. And the referral one is huge. Like especially for people thinking think about this ahead of time is that if you're in a position where you're potentially going out there to to be an operator, think about who should be on your referral list because you are going to get asked for that question. And if you know half of them are your aunt and your uncle and it's not someone in the in the realm to really give you give that person good guidance. You know, you don't want to be stuck having to fish and you want to reach out to those referrals ahead of time and just ask the permission to be able to on there. So so they know that it's coming, not just get blindsided by, hey, you know, somebody asked me for questions, you know, I haven't talked to you in seven years, but, you know, but okay, so...

Spencer: [00:20:38] The creepy referral.

Jason: [00:20:40] Yeah, but but you mind giving me a referral? Exactly. Exactly. So with so much happening here in your business and you're still working your day job, you know how how are you able to be most productive because you've aligned to try and of course you're working at your time back. You work with your wife in the business, which we haven't even touched on yet, but which is awesome. But how are you being able to be most productive in your day, what patterns do you use?

Spencer: [00:21:04] Yeah, I'm happy to speak to that one. It's been such a labor of love trying to get there. And if you hear the internet connection dropping a little bit, it just popped up. So hopefully just ask me to repeat this if it comes through choppy. Um, I'm a big nerd when it comes to prioritization, and so annual planning is a great thing to start with. So we do that. My wife and business partner, we sit down a couple of weekends when the kids are down for a nap and I kid you not and we will say, let's go block that nap time. That's our golden time to have the deep strategic conversation and just set some goals. We take those goals, we whittle them down to quarterly milestones, and then we say, What's the quarterly? Down to the monthly, down to the weekly? And we get that granular. And then I go and I say, heading into every week, usually on like a on a Friday, I'll look to the following. I'll look at my Google calendar, which is I think I find liberating when I see a fully booked Google calendar. It's a thing of beauty. I'm just a weirdo that way. I think some people see my calendar booked every minute throughout a week and they're like, Aren't you stressed? And I'm like, No, it's it's freedom to me. Um, and because I time block, you know, it's a basic thing, but people, they talk about doing it, but it's so hard to get the discipline developed and the habits developed to actually do the damn thing.

Spencer: [00:22:24] So Friday block 100% of my calendar, and I and I write down what are the three most important things that have to happen this next week. If all else fails, and if I need to, I will gut the entire calendar and I'll go through that social awkwardness of having to reach out to 5 to 6 people if I need to, just to say, Hey, I'm so sorry, person, I'm going to have to punt on our meeting, can we find a different time if it's not in line with those three priorities? Because if it's not, then why am I spending time on that then, other than to make sure I maintain and mend those those relationships? Because it's not always so simple as just saying I'm going to go do what I want to do. You still have to have to pay homage to the people in your network and the people that are your partners. So it's a balance, but that is an exercise I do literally every week is every Friday. I sit down, I look forward, I look at the annual goal, the quarterly goal, the monthly goal, the weekly goal. And then I say top three things that have to happen this week. And if they don't happen, it's a miss. And then I got the calendar, rebuild the calendar and break it to anyone. If it does impact our timing and we have to push it out a little bit.

Jason: [00:23:33] See, and that's so crucial because I can hear that, oh, well, you're so busy with all the things on your calendar. Well, ultimately you're not. You have it scheduled. So it's you can take out all that confusion where we all we all waste so much time every week just figuring out what needs to be done. And even if we have seven things in our calendar, well, it's spent, you know, ultimately hours upon hours just figuring out what to wear, where to go to lunch, you know, when do I fit this in? You know, maybe when do I go to gym? Should I have this call now? Should I have this goal later? And if it's not all built out, well, it looks like you have a light calendar and you have time to yourself. But not because you're wasting all your time making these petty decisions that really waste all your time. So having that calendar in there, if Pili was on the on the call, she would love that because she does the same thing, gets in there, has her calendar set up and she lives by the calendar. And it's important because it gives you the freedom back, you know, family time now it's in. That's that's right. It's there. Right there. The only time it's on the calendar, it's family time. That's it. That's right. Deal breaker. You know, So kudos to you for that. That's super awesome. And with Madison investing right now, what is what is the outlook for the company? Where are you guys looking to move and go to from here?

Spencer: [00:24:45] Yeah, no, I appreciate that question. I'd say right now, um, the asset class, which I actually want to lean a bit more into at this point because we have, we have a track record with multifamily and I'd always like to do more there. I would like to get a little bit more into some other ones. And I think we've we've dabbled a little bit in mobile home parks would love to do more of that. I think that there's a couple of great asset classes that are everyone uses the phrase recession resilient and there is that element of that that is strong for multifamily self-storage, which we've done a lot of, but also certainly for mobile home parks. I'd like to do some more of that. I think I would also just frankly like to figure out how I can get more of a scaled personal impact on on both our partner base, our investor base, because it's starting to get to the point where I can't literally just talk to every single person on the phone that wants to talk every single day. And, you know, I have a great texting relationship with virtually 100% of our investor base as an example. Same thing with our partners. That is great. And I don't want that to change. And that's just as you probably understand from firsthand experience. Jason Like it's a tricky thing because you want to want to stay human.

Spencer: [00:25:56] I want to be a real person. I want to I want to add value, but I'm figuring out how do we go and unpack those critical conversations to make sure that I'm able to be available for people and put those systems in place to to scale my impact and my time and add value. I am getting a little bit of pressure too, a friendly pressure to create a coaching program because I've just informally been mentoring people for real estate purposes now for more than a year. Um, I mean, in my corporate career I've been mentoring people for 13 years and that's been the most fulfilling part of my career so far. But that that might be in the near future. It is super satisfying. And I will say I have a deep respect for the many kind of coaches that I've worked with and work with now, but there are some things I would love to see more of in the coaching space when it comes to modern technology enabled resources. And what I mean by that is are there more online like videos and interactive things that allow people to actually grow and practice on their own with a little bit more hands on and digital support. So I won't nerd out on that more right now. But it's those two things really systems scaling my time and impact potential coaching program efforts all that good stuff.

Jason: [00:27:12] I love it And that's the key to success right here. Doing what you love and what you enjoy. And you know, at the same thing with with starting a podcast. We didn't start the podcast with an outcome. We enjoyed doing it and we were having so many people give back to us that we're like, Well, let's give back to others. And it was great getting on here and getting a platform and just now speaking to so many other people like yourself. I mean, the benefit beyond what goes out there, it's just great. You know, we make a lot of great connections with yourself. We make a lot of friends from it. And just ultimately the knowledge that comes across, it's just it's absolutely invaluable, I'd have to say. It's just absolutely invaluable just to not have that outcome built in. And so for that, kudos for you for what you've built there and good luck and the coaching program. I'm sure it would be awesome for you to jump in that space as well, especially with everything you're doing. Good. Well, I appreciate it for this, Spencer. We super appreciate you having coming on the show with us. If there's one thing that you could leave with the listeners that that would be stand out as a crucial point to if they are looking to really ramp up their business or just get off the couch, what is something that they need to do today in their business to really get themselves in motion?

Spencer: [00:28:16] I would say so on that question. Great question. There was a post on BiggerPockets just two days ago and I hadn't been on the forums in a while and it was a brand new person jumping in and they were asking Oh, what do I do? Like how do I get started in commercial real estate? And it was interesting because he asked it in a way that was very much like, Tell me and give me a path. And it was fine. That's fine. But the learning, he's going to hit real fast. And he and I tried to give a compassionate reply and it seemed to go well when I gave it. Other people reacted well to it. So did he. I gave a reply that said, Before you go and you ask for time from the best and the most experienced operators out there, here's here's at least what I did, in fact. I read 24 books. I listened to more than 400 podcasts. I underwrote dozens of deals and signed up for two coaching programs. I went to dozens of meetups and I and I made an idiot of myself just trying to navigate conversations with people around topics like cap rates before I could really understand them. And in all of those different conversations, I sat there and realized, Wow, this is what needs to happen. I should have. It should have happened. Honestly, after the 200th podcast I listened to. It should have happened after the 10th book I read, and I would just challenge people to to get out there and actually get engage in those conversations on on their the scariest topic that is holding them back because there's like what's the worst that can happen? Like the worst that can happen.

Spencer: [00:29:45] Like you can go out there and talk to someone and fall flat on your face in the conversation. I doubt they're going to laugh at you. That has yet to happen. Most most people in this real estate investing community, I have found to be, I think, the term that, you know, Rod Khalifa used with me the other day was like, they're givers. I think that's pretty accurate. You know, people are they are generally givers and they care and they want you to succeed. And a friend, as I say this to people I mentor like an actual friend will tell you when you have something in your teeth and you know, they want you to help to present yourself well in the world. And so they'll stop you in that conversation. If you happen to misspeak and say, You know what, let me just correct that a little bit. And so I would just I would argue that that is probably the smartest move is just take the action of going out fearlessly and getting into those conversations. Still do some prep, don't just like dive into it without that, but take action and go talk to people because it's going to be the quickest gut check about how much you know about something and then then build it into your business. Awesome.

Jason: [00:30:43] Spencer Well, this has been incredible. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for giving us all this great guidance today. For listeners that want to hear more about you, learn more about your company or connect with you, what's the best way to find you?

Spencer: [00:30:53] Yeah, absolutely. They can find us at We have our mailing list and which really anyone is welcome to join. We do a newsletter. It's got educational content and we're also just happy to connect with potential partners. So please reach out if you're curious about that. There's no M on the end, and they can sign up for a mailing list.

Jason: [00:31:13] Awesome. Spencer, It's been great. Thanks so much.

Spencer: [00:31:15] Yeah, thank you so much. Jason It's been a lot of fun.

Jason: [00:31:18] Well, this is Jason with the Real Estate Investing Foundation podcast. Huge thank you to Spencer Hilligoss. Have a great day. Bye now. All right.

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