Episode: #363: 3200 Doors and Still working a Day Job with Spencer Hilligoss

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Intro: [00:00:01] Welcome. This is the lifetime cashflow through Real Estate Investing podcast. This is where you'll learn strategies to help you achieve lifetime financial freedom through real estate investment. Your host, Rod Cleef, has owned over 2000 homes and apartments, and he brings experts in all aspects of real estate investment and management onto the show. Now here's your host, Rod Cleef.

Rod: [00:00:28] So do you look around and see other people that have achieved success in real estate or maybe even some other venture and wish it was you enjoying that success? Are you maybe even watching the years go by and things just aren't improving for you? Then listen up, my friend. The power and momentum you get from continual achievement is the topic of this week's Own Your Power clip. That's also a topic I dig deep in at my live events and on my next live event is in the Inner harbor of Baltimore. It's a cool area and it's just me teaching you for three days. I teach you how to find and buy apartment buildings. You'll also meet tons of other passionate people that you can align with in this exciting business, and you'll leave with the blueprint you need to turn your dreams into reality and what I think is even more important is I teach you to actually take action with what you learn. Now, if you don't want to be in the same place a year from now that you're in right now, don't wait another minute. Text multifamily to 414411 or go to Rodinbaltimore.com right now and take control of your life. That's multifamily to 41411. And I'll look forward to meeting you in Baltimore. All right. Let's get to it.

Rod: [00:01:37] Welcome to another edition of How to Build Lifetime Cashflow Through Real Estate Investing. I'm Rod Cleef and I am thrilled that you're here and you're going to get tremendous benefit and value from the dynamic guy that we're interviewing today. His name's Spencer Hilligoss and Spencer is in over 3200 doors and has a full time job still. And so we are going to dig into how he has done that and see if we can mitigate any excuses you may have about getting there. Welcome to the show, brother.

Spencer: [00:02:09] It's really an honor to be here. Rod. I've been listening to your podcast for the last few years and of the many that I've tried to listen to, I've got to say that you bring an inspiration to me and you bring an inspiration to many others. So thank you for everything you do for the community.

Rod: [00:02:20] Oh, what a kind thing. Thank you. Thank you, my friend. Thank you for saying that. So, you know, like we do then, you know, then one of the first things we do is I ask my guests just to kind of give a little bit of a background on their story. And, you know, so so let's start there. Let's how'd you get how'd you get into this business? How'd you get started? How'd you get through over 3200 doors with a full time job. So let's go. Yeah.

Spencer: [00:02:43] I mean, that sounds crazy when you ask it out loud even for me to hear that. So I'm 13 years into a career in Silicon Valley. High tech companies, you know, that has been what I've done. And so five different software companies, somehow I got talked into going over to a real estate tech company about four years ago by my mentor, and I joined and suddenly I'm surrounded with people that are all flippers primarily. You know, these are single family home flippers, entrepreneurs. I've been building sales and operations teams for 13 years. And at this company I suddenly find myself getting licensed as a loan originator. I find myself training, training people, hiring people and doing what I do, but through the lens of real estate. And I was sitting there going, Well, I certainly don't want to become a flipper. That's just not not aligned with my strategy. But I do want to do something actively. And I know I've been building up what I'd like to think is good startup equity. When you're working these tech companies early stage, there's a lot of selling that goes into people joining those with the notion of saying You're eventually going to join the next Google or Facebook, right? I mean, most people, based on the numbers, you know, you can you can play the odds. But but that that is not real real equity value until those things actually materialize. Right. So I joined this this tech company, this real estate tech company, and I'm just get the bug, I get the bug bad and I start going off and building that residential real estate portfolio.

Rod: [00:04:11] So you started you started with houses.

Spencer: [00:04:13] I did. And we still actually have a very modest residential portfolio. So we actually have about seven properties we own outright. Um, started reading voraciously about multifamily. All the numbers made sense and now we focus on multifamily, self-storage and mobile home parks. But that was really the journey. It was, you know, hundreds of podcasts, many of which were yours, you know, devouring the books and squeezing out the time in between meetings at nights put we put our two young boys down, you know, at the end of a long workday and eventually getting to the point where my business partner and and wife and we could talk about that later, how we how we figure that one out, um, that that has led to where we are now. And it's still I wake up every day kind of in awe of the fact that we're on this wild ride. It's not always easy, but it's absolutely worth it, right? And so you can give me talking stuff. So, so.

Rod: [00:05:07] So you are still doing you're still at a at a real estate tech company doing loan origination or managing teams that do that and and doing this on the side. So let's let's go right there because people are going to be like 3000, 3000, 200 doors as mostly as a general partner as well. I mean, it's easy for somebody to, you know, go in and be a limited partner on a deal and just and just put equity in on a deal. But but you're on the GP side on on I think 80% of those deals you said so. So you know, that involves a lot of a lot of work. So so as it relates to you and your bride, how do you divide and conquer? Do you do you have complementing skill sets? Do you kind of both do the same things? Can you can we can we get a little micro on that piece first?

Spencer: [00:06:00] Oh, you better believe it. I'd like to say we have some some perfect framework and I'd say it's evolving, but there are complementary strengths for sure. I have done most of my work in my corporate career on business development, sales operations, sales, operating, operational building. So I know that side. And I've gone I've hired hundreds of people. I've trained hundreds of people, including leadership, all the way down to individual contributors. So that's what I bring is management as well as leadership and scaling and bizdev. My wife is the marketing brain and she knows she knows that side. She's a brand manager. She's still managing her corporate career. So she is super smart when it comes to thinking about a strategy and how to think long game. And she'll look at a operational plan, break it down into its component parts. She's also great with the numbers. She knows how to read a PNL, a profit and loss statement for a business like that. And so I'm so deeply thankful that she can check me when I get overly excited. I would say that there is typically in a couple one more risk adverse and one more risky. And I would say that we're a good complement there. I am typically the one who's a little bit more risk taking. She is the one who hits the brakes on me when I get get very excited about an idea.

Rod: [00:07:20] So is she more analytical than you?

Spencer: [00:07:24] You know, that's actually funny. I would say I'm reluctantly analytical, so I do end up going deep on a spreadsheet. I would say we actually both are analytical. That is one area of strong overlap.

Rod: [00:07:36] Okay. Because sometimes, sometimes, you know, I've seen some matches made in heaven where you pair up an outgoing personality with an introverted analytical person. And I mean, it just it's a rocket ship. Totally. So. But do you both have have both both skill sets? Very interesting. So let's let's go back to the first multifamily deal that you were a GP in. Can you speak to how that came about? Maybe, maybe go a little micro on that?

Rod: [00:08:03] Do you? Yeah, I'm.

Rod: [00:08:03] Assuming you're not buying in Silicon Valley or you're out of state. Is there are you in more than one market? What was the first market?

Spencer: [00:08:11] Yeah, man, that is such a scary first moment. But looking back on it now, you're like, Wow, that was actually not that bad, right? So so that was actually in DFW in Dallas, Texas. And at the time I had gone through three different real estate coaching programs. And so I had signed up. I believe in coaching wholeheartedly. I'm willing to pay for it too, right? So I had gone through two programs and I felt like I had learned at that point underwriting. I had underwritten lots of deals. Um, second one was basically market analysis. So like looking at the looking at the deal, looking at the market. And I just want to call out this pre-work beforehand because I think it's not like I stumbled into it. It was pretty deliberate thing. But those two pieces were critical. The third coaching program was when I actually hooked up with a coach who would also let me drive along with him on a deal. And that was great. Yeah, that was. That was it. And I'd recommend the same for anyone else. You know, if you can find a person that's willing to to let you ride along and then do the work in the service of learning, that's where it's at.

Rod: [00:09:16] Did you did you did you utilize this person as a sponsor on your first deal or or, you know, tell me tell me, you know, let's let's break it down even further, because so many people obviously start with a sponsor. That's that's that's signed on Fannie Mae debt before, for example, if you're going Fannie Mae or just bring the bring the you know the resume the balance sheet or the experience component to a deal, is that how you did your first one or how did you how did you make it happen?

Spencer: [00:09:43] Yeah, the first one, I was just playing the strength and what I was going to do. What I mean by that is I have a deep network out here in Silicon Valley of people that I've been working with for the past decade. Um, and so they looked at me and they're like, Well, what value can you add? And I say, Well, I'm highly organized. I can do a spreadsheet. I can also manage a communication infrastructure. So I'm really good at making sure people are informed with reporting. People know what they're actually getting into in the deal and throughout the life of the deal, they get really great updates. And so what we can actually do is let me take investor relations and then I'm able to bring in the equity capital so that that was the compliment that I could bring. And it was also realistic because diving in to do everything from asset management all the way over to acquisition and everything in between, that's a lot of chunks to bite off when you're doing your first one. And so what I felt is like it actually compliment investor relations, do all that and be able to bring the equity capital. So so that was really the focus of that first one.

Rod: [00:10:43] Okay. Okay. Now, are you are you playing an active role on the GP side in either asset management, due diligence, all those pieces as well?

Spencer: [00:10:54] On the due diligence, yes. On asset management? No, not yet. I'm deliberately trying to kind of hold off on that part because there will come a time I would like to think in the next roughly 12 to 18 months where I will pull the cord, pull the ripcord and just go full time active because this is such a passion for me. So that that at that point I would like to get more into the asset management side. But for right now, it's all about diligence, a lot of underwriting. And then also of course, just investor relations at that. So the front end or the front end in terms of the underwrite operational review and then investor relations throughout the life of the project project readouts, all that good stuff.

Rod: [00:11:32] Okay. Okay. So tell me, how do you manage all this?

Rod: [00:11:37] You have two small boys. Did you say.

Rod: [00:11:38] That?

Spencer: [00:11:39] Yeah. Two and.

Rod: [00:11:39] Five. Two and five. Holy cow. In there. Wow. And you guys both have full time W-2 jobs.

Spencer: [00:11:46] We do. I don't know why we did all this.

Rod: [00:11:48] And you have 3200 freaking doors.

Rod: [00:11:51] So give us some give my Listeners some strategies for managing that kind of a load. I mean, that's just incredible.

Spencer: [00:12:00] Yeah. So this isn't for everybody, but this has been working for us. What we do is we take our big goals. We actually take the time to do that first and foremost. And that means my wife and business partner, Jennifer Morimoto and I, we carve out the time. Got to be a weekend, usually when the kids literally when the kids are napping and we sit there and we block strategy time. We say, What are the big goals? We start we talk about those goals. We don't move off that topic. It might take a weekend or two just to get down to clarity on what is our plan like, What are we going for here? We then take those goals, break them down into smaller time increments. You go every six months, you go quarterly, you shrink it down further. You say monthly, you then say weekly. You get the idea. You go all the way down to that weekly level, and then we say, What are the top three things if everything else fails, that must occur this week? Like what are the what has to get done this week? Sometimes that list is like one thing and if that thing is like a project or it's a relationship that we need to make sure lands well, that is what I'm going to give everything I have to and I'm going to go into my calendar. I'm going to gut the whole week. I'm going to look at my meetings and move everything I can move, including stuff that has other people going to it and just let them know if I have to break it to them. Like, I'm sorry to move this meeting out. I really have to get this other thing done. And I think that's the point, Rob, where I used to get gun shy and I think a lot of people do because it's socially awkward.

Spencer: [00:13:34] You got to go over to other people and say, hey, you know, I'm sorry, brother. I got a I got to back out of this meeting or I got to move it to next week. And they'll say for a moment, Oh, well, that's a shame. I wanted to talk to you, but yeah, we can meet next week. That's the moment of awkwardness where people get held up from actually going and being ruthlessly prioritizing and moving forward on the big goals. And so there's that. I'd like to make it sound like it's a it's a perfect system. It is not. I mean, there's there was a day about a month ago where we were sitting there and we were just wiped, you know, we were sitting there going like we have been scheduling. If you look at our family calendar, we both use Google calendar and we stack that thing down to the minute every day. And it's that that might sound stressful. It's that's like freedom to me. I think of that as clarity. I also think of that as when I say schedule, I don't mean meetings the whole time. People will look at their calendar and think, Wow, I have all this great time. I can get all this work done. But what they don't do is they don't say, I need two hours to go underwrite that deal and I'm going to go block it on my calendar on Thursday from 9 to 11 a.m. That's that step that evades most people. And I strongly encourage people to try that out and see if it's a fit for them, because that was the that was the game changer for me. Yeah, No.

Rod: [00:14:54] It's actually I teach a weekly planning process and and it's really resonating what you're saying with me because the last step is to block time. You know, the step before that is to identify like you just did ruthlessly prioritize the Pareto principle, whatever, you know, on the on every list, there's 2010 to 20% get you 80% further to identify those things and then block time for them. So so we're very aligned on that. And you know, you're proof positive that it works. So I'm going to use you as an example that that process works. I love that term ruthlessly prioritize and and guys, the other thing that I want you to take away from what Spence just said is, is clarity. You've got to have clarity. So you said you might take two full weekends to define exactly what it is you want. You have to know exactly what you want, otherwise, how the hell are you ever going to get it? Clarity is. Power. You got to have clarity. I love that. And and I love the fact that that you're hammering home the need to time block. I'm actually interviewing I've got this student that I interview live that I'm coaching. She was she was somebody that I did a contest and she's a single mom with four kids. And she won the contest when she when she told me she babysat kids at home to to have enough money, that was that's my mom's story. And that was boom. Okay, It's you. You're you're the one. So anyway, I'm interviewing her tonight, and that's one of the things that we're going to talk about because she's got four kids. One is one year old. She has got to master this time blocking piece and and and so we're going to actually discuss it tonight, which is why that triggered that memory. So let's talk about. Yeah, yeah. Awesome, awesome lady. Really excited to help her see a success. And when when that happens, there are no one is ever going to give me an excuse again. Okay. Because then that's the reason I selected her. But so. So what are. You know, you told me what your superpowers are and your wife's superpowers and that you complement each other. You know, um, talk to me about if you were coaching someone to get into this business. What are some of the qualities you'd look for in that person? What does it take to do this?

Spencer: [00:17:07] You know, I'm an introvert by default. I don't know how the hell I got into a sales leadership career. That is a weird one for me. Even today, by default, I don't just wake up in the morning and want to go out and do social. I think that is point number one. Because I didn't use to understand what it meant to be in a relationship business. So can people learn to really cherish the relationship with other people? Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, every person has that capacity. And so I bring that up first and foremost, because it's been such a big deal to me. And like you can wake up, need that coffee to get excited for the day, maybe? I certainly like coffee, but I would say I get excited to come and talk to you, get excited to go and talk to my team, get excited to go and learn about someone's background.

Rod: [00:17:58] Do you have to force that? Do you have to do you have to pre-frame that in your Do you have to like like shift that in your head consciously or is it now natural that excitement.

Spencer: [00:18:07] Most days when the purpose is clear example would be for for Madison Investing. For my business, I would say I wake up in the morning and I go, I am fired up to talk to anyone about this. Like it is just it is so much fun and challenging and engaging. It takes no coffee at all. And that comes down to me for purpose alignment. That is, you know, we have found something that we can not only contribute to, but it will ultimately be able to give back to others throughout throughout the impact we're trying to make. That is all the coffee that I need now, if it's something that is for a let's say, you know, I do enjoy my day job, I would I wouldn't be there anymore if I didn't like it. But there's days where I'm like gearing up, Of course. Absolutely. You know, like in essence and this is just my way to frame this W2 work is working towards someone else's vision, typically. And if you think of it that way, I've gotten behind and sold and excitedly, you know, rallied people behind other people's visions for 13 years. And I'm and I do that even now today, because if I believe in it, I will do it. But it's not always as natural as a purpose that you have settled on with your life partner, with your wife, you know, with your spouse. And then you wake up together and you say, let's go kick ass today. That that that doesn't require any more inspiration for me. So I would say hopefully that made sense.

Rod: [00:19:31] No, no, totally, totally did. And I know you weren't prepared for any of these questions, so you're really landing on your feet. Well, what are some quotes that you that that that motivate you any any come to mind?

Spencer: [00:19:44] I mean, certainly in the game of the relationship building and real estate, it's the I'm going to butcher it, but it's the go. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.

Rod: [00:19:55] Yeah, yeah. Love it. Yeah. No, no question. Absolutely The truth. This is a team sport. I also liked what you said about, you know, go slow to go fast. It's almost a martial arts thing, I think, in. And you learn something slow and then you become very, very fast at it. I love that. That phrase. What did you have to give up to get where you are right now, my friend? What did you have to give up?

Spencer: [00:20:20] I had to give up my X-Box Rod.

Rod: [00:20:25] Oh, my God. That's painful.

Spencer: [00:20:27] What a hardship. You know, in hindsight, it's funny how we all mature. I did. I do like a good video game. I don't really use it. And that's mostly my kids and focusing on the right priorities there. Um, I'm also a musician, so I used to play in a bunch of bands, used to play guitar. I haven't given it up. I got him hanging on my wall. I still have a big amp, which I would love to use again someday, but for right now, most of the musical performances I give is Wheels on the Bus to a show that is that is a big audience.

Rod: [00:20:59] Red fish, blue fish. One fish. Two fish. Yeah. God, that's right. Yeah. That's funny. Oh, that's hilarious.

Spencer: [00:21:05] So I would say don't rock out with metal anymore.

Rod: [00:21:09] So let me ask you this. Um, you know, I've got a lot of aspiring investors that listen to my show and and you were once there, and I'm so grateful that you gave me a shout out about listening to my podcast. Thank you for that. But, you know, what are you going to tell those people that are where you were when you first started listening and you hadn't taken down a deal yet? What advice would you give those people?

Spencer: [00:21:34] The advice I would give is that there comes a point where books must be translated to action and that playing it out in your head like just go through the thought exercise for a moment of what's the worst that can happen in two different scenarios. Worst case scenario number one, you read 30 books, you go out, you start talking to people that you're really nervous about talking to with your newly acquired knowledge to go take it for a test drive and maybe you say something wrong to one person and and they call you out and they say, oh, you know what? I don't think you explained something like cap rate correctly. I don't think you explained that correctly. And you have that moment of social awkwardness. That is just that moment. The worst case scenario is a passing five minutes of awkwardness. That's all that you're fearful of. And so I would say that's one outcome. The other outcome would be think about what happens. Worst case scenario, if you don't do that, like if you just read the damn book and you do it over and over and you sit on the knowledge, you do absolutely nothing with it, you feel like you're moving forward, you're capping out, man. And I think it's I really do think that that's it. Is that the worst case scenario is you don't do anything with it. The best case scenario is you go out, you stumble your way through a few conversations. Maybe you get a couple spreadsheets wrong, but you can do those in safe environments. You can do that with people that will actually give you real, hopefully compassionately direct feedback and they'll actually be they're on your side. Most of the real estate investing community I've encountered, Rod, are great people.

Rod: [00:23:10] Yeah, No, they're givers. They're givers. Yeah, no question. You know, occasionally you'll meet somebody that's a narcissist and just not a pleasant person to be around. But but, you know, most people truly want to contribute. In fact, contribution is a basic human need. And in fact, I'm I'm actually giving 1800 backpacks. My foundation is doing 1800 backpacks with school supplies this Saturday. Um, I just did a Facebook Live about that. But but I mean, so, so if you're listening guys um, success without that is not success. Success without giving back in some fashion is not success. And you know, I'm not going to derail this conversation by explaining why. But but the bottom line is, is you need to be giving back in some fashion. So let me ask you this. Tell me about a mistake or a failure you made in this journey to 3200 doors.

Spencer: [00:24:03] Who got the first one that comes to mind right off the bat is. You can choose a relationship or you can choose a deal. And you know, there's those moments where maybe you've been talking to a new potential partner and all of a sudden you get really excited about closing on this project with them. Maybe they're not ready for it yet. And you decide to nudge them, you send that one email too many. You send that one text too many. And in hindsight, I did that. I did that to someone. It was a few years ago, and I look back at that now and I kick myself. You know, I try not to live without regret, but I call that just a learning. And I think what I've learned since then, Rod, is it's not worth it ever, ever to to to push and to feel that if you're working with someone, if you're working with a team, you're working with an individual as a partner. Um, do you ever push them to a point where it's a short term win and think it's all about making sure you're totally aligned, you understand where they're at, and you end up in a place where you're like, Wow, that was really cool. I'm glad we made that decision together. Even if it's something that's going to end up materializing a year from now. So I look at that and it's like, Gosh, I wish I could could have gone back and not hit send on that email.

Rod: [00:25:23] Wow. That's that's that's and and, you know, I'm really glad you brought that up because, guys, this business is a long term game and you've discovered that. Spence And in fact, one of my friends, Glenn Gonzalez, I just wrote the foreword for his book. I'll have him on when it when it's on Amazon. It's from he started out as a maintenance man and now he's at 5000 doors and and his book is From Maintenance man to millionaire but but you know one of one of one of the things that he that he talked about I have a mastermind and he's in my mastermind had the first version here at my house my compound in Florida. But at that he talked about how he met a guy like ten years or maybe I guess probably 12 years ago and just befriended him. And it was a guy that owned 1700 doors and he helped him with something, did something that really showed his integrity. And now he owns those 1700 doors. Okay. So so, so you know it. And this really is a small world as well. This this multifamily space. You think it's a big world? It's really not. And so, you know, you've got to look at these relationships as long term. He also gave the example. I'll give you another one of his examples where where he was buying a property and the chiller went bad and it was $100,000 chiller and he could have made the broker pay for it, but he sucked it up and did it because he was he so valued that broker relationship. So that's another extreme example of what you just described, you know, and remembering that this is a long term game. So I'm really glad you brought that up. So what would you say is the best piece of advice you've ever received around this business?

Spencer: [00:27:02] Oh, man. Um. I got to think about that one for a sec. You know, I guess the best advice that I would give or the best advice that I've ever received. Would be about immersion. You know, I think it's about saying go all in. Don't don't make it a hobby. If you make it a hobby, you're going to skin your knees.

Rod: [00:27:22] I'm so glad you said that. I'm so glad you said that. Because. Because it allows me to say what I'm going to say next. And that is, for God's sakes, come see me at one of my boot camps if you haven't done this business, because that is total immersion. But as a flip on what you just said, you're either in or you're out. There's no halfway in. You don't have one foot in, one foot out. You know, it's like like the Latin word or Latin root for the word decision means to cut off. And a great example is if you're attacking the island, you burn your ships because you're going to take their ships home. It's done. And that's total immersion. Yeah. Love it. Love it. I'm so glad you brought that up, that one.

Spencer: [00:28:03] And that means like just to give a real example for the audience to read a couple of books that I've read, even even kind of propose this, I would say if it sounds extreme to someone, I can see why. But I am so deadly serious about its effectiveness. If you want to get started, let's say you're already in a day job, you're in a W-2 career. If you want to make a switch and you're serious about pursuing this path, go look for jobs in the industry for your day job. Like find a place that is aligned to that industry, maybe even it's a maybe it's a downgrade and like think like just think, play that out. It's like maybe you're a VP in a software company. Maybe you are doing marketing. What if if you find out I want to go into real estate, I want to be active. I got advice a while back that also said, Don't quit your day job immediately. Do it in phases. Build up your revenue over time outside your day job. So there's two things you get from doing that. Ignore the damn title. It's not about the title. Go find a place that will pay you to learn and just humble yourself. Like I got humbled so hard by so many tough experiences in my in my corporate career and mentors that just hold me deeply accountable. And so I try to operate in an egoless fashion, but you got to get over the title and just go find how to get close to the work and get paid to go to school, because that's basically what it means if you want to go into real estate. I've stumbled into that. But joining a real estate company that was a lender, so suddenly I'm sitting there staring at these deals and looking at how to get a profitable flip. And I'm managing people who are loan or loan originators and I'm getting licensed and I'm sitting there going, I know people who are making more cash than I am on their day job, but I am learning invaluable skills and ultimately I really recommend that strategy for people.

Rod: [00:29:56] I love it. And guys, there's so many things you can do. You can get into appraising, you can get into property management, real estate sales, you know, go go work at one of the big brokers. You know, there's so many ways you can immerse yourself in this business the way you just described. So love it. Lending like like yours, you know, just totally awesome. So what's a question on that? I didn't ask that you wish I had Spencer

Spencer: [00:30:18] Oh, man.

Spencer: [00:30:23] When is the right time to. To get started?

Rod: [00:30:27] Yeah. I usually end with that one. And I didn't with you.

Rod: [00:30:30] So. So. So. Yeah. Well, let me do let me ask you a different one, though, that kind of ties into that. And that is, you know, if you were going to tell yourself, you know, I don't know how old you are, you look like you're in your 30s. But but let's say you told your 36. Okay. Let's say if you were going to tell your 22 year old self something about this business specifically, you know, would you have started sooner? What what would you tell yourself? What would you you know, what might be different, if anything? Maybe, maybe nothing?

Spencer: [00:31:00] No, it'll be really specific with this one, and it's probably going to hit home for a few folks. I was living in Denver, Colorado, in 2009, I believe. I'm sure the data the data heads out there will debate me on this one. I saw some stats as recently as a month ago that said single family home values in Denver, Colorado was the biggest delta positively out of any city in the United States over the past ten years.

Rod: [00:31:25] I had to You had to go there. You had to go there. Do you know how painful what you just said is for me? You probably have no idea. I used to own 500 houses there. Okay. I it's my biggest that's one of my biggest regrets. If I still own those damn houses, they'd be free and clear. And I'd be netting a half $1 million a month minimum. Half a million. But, you know. And the only way I justify it is I wouldn't have met my wife if I hadn't sold them. So, you know, that's how I justify it. But but why did you have to use that freaking example, Spence? Oh, anyway, finish your story. I'm sorry. It's just it. You know, I had to interrupt because it's. Yeah.

Spencer: [00:32:06] Or that means it's the best topic to bring up, right? It's the best learning. It's the best learning for people. So funny story on that topic too. Rod I moved back out to Colorado after I went to school there originally in Boulder, went back there years later, and it was also a time when my wife took me back. My now wife took me back. She was living out there, so that helped. But I was sitting there renting, probably like one of the nicest apartments, thinking I was some kind of some kind of hot something, you know. And I was about 200, 300ft away, probably from a couple places I could have bought. Right. Just just bought at an excellent deal. Just excellent. Excellent deal. I bought nothing. And, you know, at the time I was contributing to my 401. K at my day job. I was driving to work in a car that I probably shouldn't have purchased and all these stupid things. And if I look back, that has to be it. I try to live without regret, but I will say that it probably doesn't compare to yours. Thank you.

Rod: [00:33:05] That's that's. That's awesome. And I'm, you know, I'm really glad you brought it up. And and, you know, it is what it is. But yeah, that that that that did hammer home for me. It's funny you said Boulder. I was just there last weekend. I had my mastermind, you know, I've got a mastermind with hitters over 5 billion in assets in there now. And we had we did our our excursion was to hike the Flatirons on Saturday. We meet on Thursday and Friday and then we hiked the Flatirons on Saturday and we're going to meet next in in Sarasota. And on Saturday we're actually going to do my my basket brigade, where we're going to feed 1500 families for Thanksgiving. So that'll be fun in November. But anyway, well, listen, my friend, I really appreciate you being on the show. You've added tremendous value. And and I'm really glad we got to know each other because I'm really I've really enjoyed having this chat with you. So I know that we're going to stay in touch and and thank you.

Spencer: [00:33:59] It's been an honor. Rod, Seriously, I've been following you for years. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Rod: [00:34:04] My pleasure, brother.

Conclusion: [00:34:05] Thank you for listening to the Lifetime Cashflow through Real Estate Investing podcast. If you've enjoyed the show, please take a minute to visit iTunes and leave your comments. For more resources or to connect with us further, please visit our website at rodkheif.com. Tune in next week for our next show. Any investment opportunities mentioned on this podcast are limited to accredited investors. Any investments will only be made with proper disclosure and subscription documentation and subject to all applicable laws.